1-For interlanguage Umit Deniz Turan says "remember that until that time learner languge was considered to be an incorrect version of the target language.." what is that
time?
1. Before Selinker described the learner language as the language of a learner from the earlier days, the learner language had been thought to be an incorrect version of the TL.
2- what is interim system and rules?
2. “Interim system” is the temporary grammatical system used by learners. It is temporary since it changes when a learner develops new rules.
3-what is wanted to be meant saying fossilization?
3. “Fossilization” refers to interlanguage patterns which are unlikely to change even after exposure to the TL or instruction in the TL. We can use this term when
we want to refer to errors which occur in the L2 performance of proficient speakers when they are tired or under pressure.
4-both can make overgeneralization both use simplification at first both pass through sequences of development both can be creative both have internal laanguge both have
similar style in question developmentCan these be similarities between L1 and L2? what can be added more?
4. The similarities you wrote are OK,but there is evidence of a silent period, of use of formulas in both types of acquisition. However, there are also differences. As for the silent period, whereas all L1 learners necessarily pass through a silent period, many L2 learners do not. Many L2 learners appear to make greater use of formulas than L1 learners. We might say that L2 learner language displays many of the
features of L1 learner language plus some additional ones.
5-what is learned early by one is learned by others means we learned this one because of the one learned early, one makes easy to learn another one, right?
5. I think you misunderstood the meaning of the sentence. One means ‘one second language learner’ and others means ‘other second language learners’. It does
not matter whether learners come from different L1 backgrounds and different learning environments, they pass through the similar sequences of development.
6-At the stage 3; there are wh fronting, do fronting and other fronting exampled ;is the picture has two planets on top, can be answered saying 'YES'. At the stage 4;
there are wh-plus copula and auxiliary other than do in yes/no questions, the example is; is there a fish in the water; can be answered saying 'YES' so both example can be stage 3 or stage 4 what is the difference.
6. You can answer these questions by saying ‘yes’ or ‘no’. Questions at the third stage are not grammatical whereas the ones at the fourth stage are grammatical.
This is the difference between the third stage and the fourth stage.
7-the 2nd question in the table on page 82 is ; are you a good student? and this is marked at 4th stage in the answer key but it was stage 3 and stage 4 in the table on page 79. whatever sentence i make for other fronthing by using other auxiliries, all of them can be answered by yes or no, so what other fronthing can be?; without answering yes/no???
7. Other fronting means auxiliaries other than ‘do’, e.g. ‘is’.
8-you will probably ask this matter in turkish in exams so how many stage are there in turkish then?. Can these be examples of stage in turkish?
stage 1 Geldin? stage 2 Cocuklar topu patlatti!? stage 3???????? Top nerede?
acik televizyon? stage 4 televizyon acik mi? Geldin mi?>>evet stage 5 Nasil eve
gider-iz? Nereye gid-ecek arkadaslar stage 6 bu araba daha guzel degil mi?
niye gitmiyoruz ki?
8. As for your question examples from Turkish, we can change two of them according to fronting : ‘Nerede top?’ ‘Açýk mý televizyon?’
i just want to prepare myself to such things.
9-what are the differences suggested by Bardovi-Harlig?
9. The differences suggested by Bardovi-Hardig are the differences which occurred in the marking past tense.Learners marked past tense on some verbs than on others.In other words, if a verb has a natural end point (e.g.read a book, cook spaghetti,etc.), it is easier for learners to learn than a verb without a natural end point (e.g. be, know, love, believe, walk, run, etc.).
10-for Bardovi and Harlig this sentence; 'he died' is easier for a learner to express than 'while he was playing football, a car hit and he died' is this right?
10. The second sentence seems to be more difficult to learn, but you made the sentence complex by adding two more verbs (play and hit).
11-As error analisers are rejecting contrastive analysis's suggestions(where there are similarities between the first language and the target language, learner will
acquire its structures with ease and vice versa, and then error analisers give an example that german learners' inversion of subject and lexical verbs in
questios which they learn easily beacuse it is similar to german structure. so isnt there confliction that they give an example of CAH which they reject.
11. CA focuses on the prediction of errors while EA focuses on the description
of errors in an effort to understand how learners process second language data. While analyzing the data,they categorize the errors such as overgeneralization,developmental (those errors that are similar to L1 acquisition), interference (those errors that reflect the structure of the L1), unique (those errors that are neither developmental nor interference). As you wrote,there is a conflict while describing the errors. That
is, they borrow some notions from CA such as interference. Recent studies show that there is an important interaction related to the L1, some universal knowledge or processes, and the samples of the TL learners encounter in the input. In other words, we
cannot ignore the L1 influence on L2.
12-well i have a few questions to you my instructors,if we cannot say that specifically one factor is enough for the succes in learning, can we make a suggestion that a person who has an above-average IQ, who is well motivated to learn the language as he likes it and has an ability to acquire it easily, who doesnt fear to speak and is extrovert and has to speak it because of his profession can be successful in learning L2? but if this is the only formulation to success, does this mean that a person who is shy but wants to learn it will learn its rules but couldnt speak it? can you make a total summary for us about that issue. in fact if you do, you would give the exam answers.
12- As you summarized, a number of factors,such as the ones you have mentioned, are necessary for successful learning of a foreign language, but it does not mean that one has to have all of these characteristics to learn a particular language successfully.Intelligence, motivation, personality characteristics all have varying degrees of effect on this process. As regards to your first question related
to a shy person's learning a foreign language, we can say that s/he can certainly learn a particular foreign language on the grounds that s/he has the other
charecteristics necessary. Nevertheless, s/he can have problems in using her/his language when speaking. But this is not directly related to learning; it is
related to using it.
13-in the intelligence part the book says in its last sentence; "in our experience, many students whose academic performance has been weak have experinced considerable success in second language learning", if a student's academic performance is weak and he intends to english and is successful, does this because of his positive attitudes
if the aptitude is an exceptional feature of the minority of learner, how this can be put in the general factors affecting the learning. the book says; " some individuals have an exceptional aptitude for language learning" i dont know how to say this turkish sentence in english istisnalar kaideyi bozmaz. it gives a specific example CJ and then says learning quickly is the 'distinguishing' feature of aptitude. so this sentence from the book; "successful language learners may not be strong in all of the components of aptitude" can be the argument against the significant correlation between success and aptitude. if not, what can it be?
13-In response to your second question,we can say that the person's success in learning the language, despite his/her limited academic success, can be due to some other factors, such as personal characteristics,intelligence,positive attitudes etc. Though I haven't been able to fully understand your question related to the relationship between apptitute and success, we know that apptitute comprises some
abilities, such as the ability to figure out grammatical rules from language samples,the ability to identify new sounds, learn new words and so on.It is certain that one
may not possess all of these abilities equally. Nevertheless, if one has all of them, it is highly likely to attribute this person's success in learning a particular foreign language to his/her amount of having these abilities..
14-what can a person's practical and immediate goals be? can learning english to pass the kpds exam to get more money in your job be an example of practical goal? does"instrumental motivation" for learning means here that language learning is seen as a tool rather than a goal for person's own personal needs and ambitions?. if i
want to learn english because i like it, can this be a integrative motivation because english is not a tool but goal?
does learning language for personal growth and cultural enrichment mean that he wants to learn it because of his professional ambitions or his positive attitudes towards
the language?
14-Immediate goals of learning a foreign language, I think, can change from person to person. For example, getting a good score from KPDS, as you mentioned, can be an immediate goal for a person. Since you want to learn English because you like,you have integral motivation.Learning a foreign language thinking that it is a source of enrichment is again integral motivation, though we can make use of this enrichment in our profession. Since our first and foremost purpose is enrichment,we can make use of this in our profession as a by product.
15-which one does learn language better, majority learning the language of minority group or minority learning the language of the majority. i think minority learning the
language of majority learns better beacuse they have to do and this doesnt give any pain to them as they are minority but learning the language of the minority may give pain and stress to the majority as they are larger in number. is this right?
15-Although you may be right in saying that minority learning the language of the majority can learn better, I think is not always possible to give a clearcut answer to this question, since it can change from person to person as is closely related to how these two groups feel towards each other
16-what is the difference between preference and belief.although its clear when we look at the titles, it gives a little confusion saying; learner's preferences for
learning, whether due to their learning style or to their beliefs about how languages are learned..., does preference cover style and belief.
if i cant learn new things without seeing the rules written, does this mean that this is my preference or "style", and is the belief the 'thought' part of this matter or more concrete than being only a thought??. Ý mean there is a belief that i cant learn without these certain things and these things are my learning style or preference?...which one comes first belief>>preference>>style or preference>>style>>>belief which one is more important, may be belief because it affects the learning actions and lead us to behave
according to our belief or may be preference because we prefer something to something and this causes to form a belief that; yes i cant learn without these facts and
this is my style and there forms a belief in your mind which will force you to behave in that way. which one derives from another, belief from preference or preference from belief?
16-With regard to the relationship between belief, style, and preference, I think belief shapes the others and as such it comes first. Even if one's belief in doing something is wrong,it still has a great effect on it. As regards to preference and style, I can say that our styles affect our preferences. I mean we prefer to do things based on our styles. In other words, preference is a conscious thing that is done according to our styles. If one cannot, for example, learn a particular thing without seeing it, it is because of that person's learning style, not preference. Your understanding of field depence and indepence is okay.
17-i can study and read book or sleep in every situation,nothing can disturb me. so am i field independent? if i am hard to answer questions in a exam sitting on desks limiting my leg to stretch them, or if i cant understand lessons without listening music simultaneously, am i field dependent?
17-We know that a field-independent person does not pay attention to the context; on the other hand, a field-dependent person tends to pay great attention to context.
First of all thanks for your leading questions again.
1/what is the argument against the significant correlation between success and aptitude?
And finally we are discussing about your first question:the book says that the studies( about MLAT and PLAB )were conducted at a time when teaching is
besad on gramer translation Or audiolingual methods.but in the more communicative approach to teaching many teachers and researchers think that apptitude is irrevelant to the process of laguage acquisition because the abilities are advantageous
when classroom instruction is meaning ~oriented rather than focused on drills or metalinguistic explanations.so far every thin is okay and I have understood except one think: we say that attitude is acceptable in audio lingual methods because it is
meaning oriented but it isn’t revelant when we use drills in our classes ;but we use drills in audiolingual methods ,too( such as single drill , multuble slot drill , transformation drill, question answer drill…….etc)I think I wont catch exact point
again…sos!
2/what factor is found to be correlated with linguistic performance more than linguistic competence?After having read them I understood that personality is found to be correlated with linguistic performance more than linguistic competence.Also the cartoon in our course book page:55 show this truth in a humorous way…(this is your secon question)
3/how do social identity and social dynamic affect performance in L2
About social dynamic and social identiy:if somebody is willing to learn about L2 (it`s culture , the literature , the wordview, the food……etc.),he will
have a more positive attitude twords L2 . And also if you are the member of minority group, you speak the majority groups language not because your choise
but you have to do so .that is because of your groups lack of power,you are majority( this is your thirt question ).
1/what is the argument against the significant correlation between success and aptitude?
Sezen, read the last paragraph on page 53 which says
something about the Grammar Translation and Audiolingual
Methods. Try to remember the focus of these methods.
Then read the claims made by a more communicative
approach to language teaching and try to relate them to
the correlation between aptitude and success. Please
share your thoughts with the whole group on this again
OK?
2/what factor is found to be correlated with
linguistic performance more than linguistic competence?
For this one read the last paragraph on page 55, and
come back with and answer to discuss here, OK? Consider
'communicative ability' and 'grammatical accuracy'
mentioned on page 56. Which one is realted to
perpormance and which to competence?
3/how do social identity and social dynamic affect performance in L2?
Imagine two English learners. One likes the language very much: the way it sounds, the melody of it. S/he also admires the culture of the target language: he likes the songs, the literature, the food, the wordview of the speakers etc. The other learner hates them all.Hates the language, keeps saying "... this is stupidest language of all, I hate the people, I hate the food..." Which of these learners is adopting the identity markers
of the target culture? Which one would have a more positive attitude toward the L2? Also a learner may have to speak a language not just because he likes it, because he has to since it is the majority language. For example, think of a 60 year-old Turkish man living in Germany. Does this person speak German beacuse he wants to or beacuse he is forced to? Think about all of these questions and share your conclusion with all of us,Sezen, OK?
Yes, even though the existing research does not reveal a clear-cut relationship between personality and L2 learning, it is claimed that uninhibited, confident, and extroverted learners would be more willing to take risks and participate in class discussions than learners who are shy, introverted, and less confident. So these students would be more adventageous in developing and performing their communicative (oral) skills. However,
this does not necessarily mean that a shy, introverted, or less confident learner cannot develop these skills.
About social dynamic and social identiy:if somebody is willing to learn about L2 (it`s culture , the literature, the wordview, the food……etc.),he will have a more positive attitude twords L2 . And also if you are the member of minority group, you speak the majority groups language not because your choise but you have to do so.that is because of your groups lack of power,you are majority( this is your thirt question ).
Yes, as you have realized, some learners stick tightly with their social identity. Even though the ultimate goal in L2 teaching/learning is to achieve native-like fluency, such learners are not really enthusiastic about that. I have a friend who speaks English with a very heavy Turkish accent. But this is not because he is not capable of changing the way he speaks, but rather beacuse he does not want to change it. He never wanted to sound like an American. He in fact fears to sound like one. He feels strogly about his cultural/national identity (Turkish) as well as his social identy (working class immigrant in the US). He keeps saying, "I am a Turk, and this is how a Turk speaks English". He is always reluctant to use English in his daily communication, he minimizes it and he even tries to get English speakers to speak Turkish. You see how attitudes
and social distance affect the pace and nature of L2 learning?
Sezen, you seem to be confused about the theory behind the audiolingual method. The belief about language and language learning in this method is that languages have
their own structure and rule system, and that language is learned through forming habits. Rote learning (learning through imitation/memorization) is emphasized in this method. Think about how habits are formed. For example, smoking is a habit, right? How does it become a habit? You do it again, and again, and again, right? You do it so often that you get used to it, and it becomes a habit. According to behaviorism (and audiolingual method stemmed from it), language is learned this way. You imitate what you hear, you do it repeatedly until it becomes a habit. Do you think meaning is emphasized in this kind of learning? Not really. What is emphasized instead? Forms and accurate production of these forms repeatedly. This is exactly what a behaviorist teacher
tries to do in an audiolingual classroom through drills and mechanical exercises. The reason why a correlation was found (back in those years) between success and
aptitude was due to the fact that at those times language proficiency tests used to focus on testing formal language skills. And since language learning was equated with structure learning, components of aptitute became vital in language learning and learners who were successful in these areas were also found to be successful in language learning. So this shows a correlation between aptitude and success in language learning. But when more meaning and fluency oriented approaches (i.e. communicative approach) to language learning were adopted, this was seen irrelevant. Learners who were more disadvantaged in analytical skills were found to be successful in functional aspects of language. But more research is needed to discover more about this.
Bu sorular justalp( ALP SIMSEK) tarafindan sorulmus cevaplar ayla hocadandir/
Duzenleyen ise Mustafa BARAN’dýr
www.iolpgalerisi.com by Mustafa
Baran